Season 2: Episode 13: Women in Social Reform: Should temperance have been intersectional?

In this episode Kelsie and Brooke introduce the next theme, Women in Social Reform, and they start with the most powerful women's reform movement of the 19th century: temperance. Kelsie teaches Brooke about three women every school child should know: Frances Willard, Carry Nation, and Ida B. Wells-Barnett among many many others. Things get tense. Let's get into it.

Kelsie Eckert  0:05  
The Remedial History Project is a nonprofit working to get women's history into the K to 12 curriculum to help us meet our goal. We produce media lesson plans, and so much more. Check it out on our website, www dot remedial history.com. The remedial history project is funded through grants and by listeners like you. Please head over to patreon.com and become a supporter of the remedial History Project. YouTube can help us reform education and allow women to be seen heard and complicated. In particular funds from patrons added from here on out will help us launch a crash course YouTube channel on women's history. We will be producing short 10 minute videos that educators can play in their classes telling women's history from era to era for both us and world history. Let's make history together. 

Brooke Sullivan  0:57  
Hey, Kelsie. 

Kelsie Eckert  0:58  
Hey Brooke

Brooke Sullivan  0:59  
Want to tell everyone what's happening in today's episode.

Kelsie Eckert  1:01  
Today we are introducing the next theme theme, the theme for the podcast. All right women in social reform. I'm here for

Brooke Sullivan  1:11  
I'm here for it, let's get into this.

Announcer  1:14  
Hello and welcome to Remedial Herstory: the other 50%. The podcast that explores what happened to the women in history class. Now here's your host, Kelsie Brook Eckert and her partner in crime, Brooke Neva Sullivan. 

Kelsie Eckert  1:31  
In this episode, we are going to be introducing our second theme of the year, women in social reform. And Brooke, this is an essential theme when you're talking about women's history.

Brooke Sullivan  1:44  
Tell me more Kelsie? Well,

Kelsie Eckert  1:47  
I feel like if you think about it, when women have been excluded from power in a lot of ways, they then become sort of like the people outside of power advocating for those who need help with stuff. Right, right. Yeah. So most times women come into history class is in the work that they do advocating for various people who need support. People that come to mind that are like kind of classic in an American History class are Jane Addams, who founded the whole house in Chicago for immigrants coming over to help them adjust to American life, Clara Barton, who founds the American Red Cross shortly after the Civil War, and then of course, everything that she did during the Civil War. So yeah, I mean, and those women, like definitely make the cut of class. But they're not the only ones. And today, and I know, in fact, women are pretty integral and I would say, every social movement

Brooke Sullivan  3:00  
I think you're accurate there. Unless there's a male social movement, we're missing. 

Kelsie Eckert  3:06  
Yeah. But even then women are oddly they're.I know. They're like, it's like, this is a men's movement for men. And some women are

Brooke Sullivan  3:14  
Are like, here's your banner. Yeah. I got for you. Good for you. I'll keep marching. We've been out here for years. Good luck with whatever you're doing over there. Keep it up.

Kelsie Eckert  3:23  
So today, I want to introduce you to probably the most important women's movement in social reform, but also the most powerful political movement of the 19th century in American history. Hey, before we get to that, a want to tell you a little bit about what's to come. We've got a lot of topics ahead in the seams on health care, medical care. We've got a lot of things on the settlement movement. So John Jane Addams will come up again. Okay, I know for me, Jane Addams was something I was like, yeah, yeah, I know who she is. But we're going to go into depth on that movement broadly, as well as her specifically. Okay. So there's a lot of really exciting stuff that Oh, I didn't even mention, like democratic equality across the globe. Right. And, like

Brooke Sullivan  4:17  
You buried that one down there. That wasn't your top billing.

Kelsie Eckert  4:21  
No, I totally just spaced it. But. And these are just a sampling of things that you could get into. And of course, there are many more than we'll get on to Yeah, in this theme.

Brooke Sullivan  4:32  
So I'm excited for this theme.

Kelsie Eckert  4:33  
Yeah, because it's powerful. I mean, we just spent the last few weeks talking about women in power. Right. But a lot of times those monarchs, you know, they're barely like their throne is under threat. Right? You know, as it is, so they don't have a lot of opportunity to reach down and pull the women behind them up. Right. That really

Brooke Sullivan  4:55  
is not a theme until more recently, right? You can't reach out when you're the only One there.

Kelsie Eckert  5:00  
Yeah. What's great about the theme of social reform is we're actually getting into kind of the antithesis, right? Not women on the outside, working to challenge power.

Brooke Sullivan  5:13  
Right? Well, and I think it's good that there is this topic because I think often you highlight the powerful person, and you forget about the narratives that help or the journey that got them there who's supporting them, or who's helping them move this needle forward? Or is even right alongside them as powerful as they are. And they more than likely are female. So should be mentioned.

Kelsie Eckert  5:36  
Something that I'm really conscious of that I'm definitely going to do today. By the way, I don't talk about why it's bad. But hold on. You're gonna score yourself on our podcast. Yeah, it'll be

Brooke Sullivan  5:47  
Interesting.

Kelsie Eckert  5:48  
We talked in one of our first episodes of season one Heroes and Sheroes about the problem of her vilification. And one of the things when you get into social movements or like, you know, any movement, right, you have to remember that there are dozens of people behind that movement. So like I mentioned, Jane Addams, specifically, but she's part of a larger movement for, you know, supporting these immigrant people coming over. Yeah, and, and, and so it's kind of important to keep that context of, yeah, we're gonna name a couple women over the course of this theme, and they're maybe representative of many people, but don't make the mistake of erode vacation and be like, you know, this is the quintessential or whatever. Today, we're going to talk about temperance. Okay, temperance was the most powerful women's movement more powerful than suffrage in the 19th century. And by the time I mean, think about it, they were able through the temperance movement to pass prohibition to ban the sale of alcohol in the United States, say, consumption, production and sale of alcohol in the United

Brooke Sullivan  7:02  
Can you imagine if that happened today, 

Kelsie Eckert  7:04  
Oh, my gosh, it would be wild.

Brooke Sullivan  7:05  
Wild. 

Kelsie Eckert  7:07  
So this is, you know, it's a powerful movement. We're going to talk about a couple individual women. But it's important to remember that they are part of the masses, part of the many women that are behind this. And, you know, depending on where you are, and where you're teaching, you could find individual women who were involved in your local temperance organizations, because there were many all over the country. And so you could look up those women learn more about them and connect what's going on at the national level. And we're gonna talk about the national level more today, with your students in your classroom, you know, what's going on in your state.

Brooke Sullivan  7:48  
So interesting.

Kelsie Eckert  7:49  
So today, we're going to talk about temperance

Brooke Sullivan  7:51  
Ok.

Kelsie Eckert  7:52  
And so temperance, alcohol, I kind of gave it away, when you know, about the temperance movement,

Brooke Sullivan  8:00  
not much other than it was like really done well, in the marketing of it. Because it was basically like, they kind of position themselves like, against the family unit, if you were consuming alcohol. And it was like, What a great opposition to have to be you either like, like families or you don't and like how dare in the time period, fant the family unit, the core value of society and how you, you know, establish status was the thing. And so if you were opposition to family, it's like you must you are opposition to all it didn't it crossed? racial boundaries, it crossed religious boundaries, it was like multiplied by that, like, how dare you? Yeah. There's definitely some groups out today that still try and position themselves against the family unit. And I think everyone's like, yeah, weren't done with that.

Kelsie Eckert  8:54  
So temperance reform really begins. I mean, it is a women's movement, even though there are lots of men that are involved in the shore, but it really is a women's movement, because like you said, they're positioning it about them. They're making this issue about the family defending the family from alcoholism. And in a weird way, it's, it's kind of interesting, because they, they kind of it's sort of like alcohol to blame, not the abusers of alcohol. Right. Right. Which, you know, you could talk about how alcohol how alcoholism is, you know, like, an illness. Right, right,

Brooke Sullivan  9:27  
is an illness, you know,

Kelsie Eckert  9:30  
so like, you know, that it is kind of interesting that even in that time, they were able to sort of like separate those things, but it's a women's issue, because when you have excessive drinking, you have abuse, you have violence, and women and children were the primary victims of those things right then and now. And so. So it really became not just a family issue, but like a women's issue, right? This is if you want to defend women, if you want to help women, you should be involved in this. Yeah. It's interesting because this issue sort of parallels suffrage in terms of like, these two movements are taking off at the same time. And you've got sort of, you know, a lot of women who double dip like Susan B. Anthony was a temperance reformer. And but a lot of times people tried to keep the issues separate. Because it's like, you people felt like they had to sort of stay in their camp. And if they might couldn't cross the barrier, they couldn't cross the barrier. Because if you did, you're not giving your whole effort to the thing that you care about the most right? Now this gets interesting. And the question that I want people to use, because I think it's a really good kind of compelling question to investigate, is, should social movements be intersectional? Should you tackle different issues, and at the end of this episode, I'm going to tell you about how temperance really gets in trouble because they don't become intersectional Oh, ways to isolating to isolating especially on issues of race. And so that's where we're going with this just so you know, how I like to know, I'm gonna start I'm gonna start with white women, though. Classic, man. Okay. So. So the temperance movement, also called like, the women's crusade, so literally, I mean, it literally has a name in books, like ties it to women's history, right. So it's called the Women's crusade takes off, really like post Civil War, and they become really, really active. They have a lot of petitions and demonstrations for educators overload for anybody. There's a really awesome Ken Burns documentary called prohibition that goes into a lot of depth. And, you know, Ken Burns does a lot of like, great documentaries. But this is like a very women's centered documentary that

Brooke Sullivan  11:48  
The thing I love about his documentaries is it's always a great narrator. That just like flawlessly delivers the history that you want to hear and it like drips from the microphone. You're like, yeah, I don't care what's on the screen. Tell me more.

Kelsie Eckert  12:01  
Yeah. This is a very powerful documentary. I like it. A lot of shown parts of it in my classes. This podcast is sponsored by our patrons patrons get access to behind the scenes, regular rhp gear, bonus episodes, insights into our research lesson plans before everybody else. And more. Brooke, read off these awesome people.

Brooke Sullivan  12:25  
Thank you to Jeff, Barbara, Christian, Kent, Jamie, Jenna, Nancy, Megan, Leah, Mark, Nicole, and Sarah, Alicia and Katya.

Kelsie Eckert  12:33  
What do you notice so awesome about this particular group of people know what very few of them are actually educators. These are bad ass people who care so much about equitable and inclusive education that they are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

Brooke Sullivan  12:50  
Nice. 

Kelsie Eckert  12:51  
Yeah.

Brooke Sullivan  12:52  
That's awesome.

Kelsie Eckert  12:52  
Yeah, so cool. You too can become a patron of the remedial history project by heading over to www.patreon.com and becoming a sponsor of the remedial Herstory project for just $5 a month. That's it. That's one latte.

Brooke Sullivan  13:10  
But I mean, it's, it's one of something but it's cheap. And you get all that stuff.

Kelsie Eckert  13:15  
All that stuff. You too can give up one latte for thousands of children and women.

Brooke Sullivan  13:21  
You could also buy condoms for more than that.

Kelsie Eckert  13:27  
You could produce

Brooke Sullivan  13:28  
You could reduce reproduction for less than that.

Kelsie Eckert  13:33  
Brooke, most importantly, instead of lamenting that women's history isn't being taught in high school or that they didn't know these women, these people are putting their money where their mouth is. And they are getting it in to the curriculum by funding us.

Brooke Sullivan  13:47  
It's awesome. And they believe women's stories are important. Yes, thank you. The

Kelsie Eckert  13:52  
Thanks, patrons. We love you.

Brooke Sullivan  13:54  
We do love you.

Kelsie Eckert  13:57  
And so temperance takes off during that time. The first real president of this time period,

Brooke Sullivan  14:07  
Do tell who in charge? Is it a white man? No. Shock? Ah. Oh, president of the temperance movement.

Kelsie Eckert  14:17  
So this is so the major organization for Temperance is actually a women's organization. It's a Women's Christian Temperance organization. And, or the WCTU as it would be called.

Brooke Sullivan  14:29  
Don't love the acronym but we'll allow it.

Kelsie Eckert  14:33  
The President was this woman named Annie Wittenmyer. And she was obviously powerful within the organization. And so sort of the initial question about intersectionality is should temperance embrace suffrage? So this is controversial because suffrage is sort of like, you know, these women are getting political on the issue of temperance because they're, they're doing that in defense of the Family, right? Okay. If you bring suffrage into it. Now you're saying women should get outside of the family and into the realm of politics? Yeah, they're oppositional. It's sort of like, are those the same? Like, can can you do? Can you do both of those things at the same time? And certainly there are women doing both of those things. But Annie didn't see. That didn't feel like the WCTU should endorse the suffrage agenda. Okay, because that was different. You know, it's just a different aim. And maybe just don't blur. The lines don't muddy the waters. And we have documentation that she did that. Yeah, definitely. She does not. Yeah, she does not support suffrage. And so I want to introduce another probably the most important figure of the WCTU. Which is Francis Willard Francis Willard is part of the WCTU. Really early on, and is a champion for both suffrage and temperance. Oh, she is a traveler. Yeah, her background is in education. And she is a firecracker. She has issues with with one of the leaders of local Northwestern University and she was working at a college nearby for women. And and she like goes head to head with this, this guy who at some point they were engaged. So that's fascinating drama.

Brooke Sullivan  16:26  
But are we leading with this story? Yeah. Just kidding.

Kelsie Eckert  16:29  
So she just you know, she's she's a firecracker. And she comes in, she gets involved in temperance work. And she really wants them to endorse suffrage. Right? Like, if

Brooke Sullivan  16:39  
You're going for women's movement, these are women that should support other women.

Kelsie Eckert  16:42  
Yeah and like, honestly, how fast could we get temperance? If we had the right to vote? Exactly. They tried to get like carthorse apartment or an argument with them? Yeah, there's a trend that's developing around the country to give women the right to vote and be a part of school boards. And because, again, extension of the extension of the family, like maybe that and so Francis will get this idea. Okay, well, if we can't, like full on get the right to vote, can we get the right to vote on issues of temperance and right, that type of thing. So she tries to petition for that, and it fails. And it fails, largely because she, you know, she's being kind of like, undermined by the fact that the organization entirely won't endorse this whole voting issue. So she ends up leaving the WCTU, and it's just, I'm fed up, like way over, and Annie steps down, and she becomes the president shortly after that, which is fascinating. So she becomes the president, they pretty much immediately endorse suffrage. And the two trains are forever merged, and they're moving forward together. So she champions both of these issues. And so in that way, she's pretty, you know, she sees that there's merit in having different issues brought together and that one can serve the other, right. I mean, a piece of Temperance is really getting men to appreciate and respect the value act they're having on their, the women and children in their lives, right. And so if you can sort of deal with if you can get that basic level of respect, that you can also maybe convince them that women should have the right to vote, right, like, like, these two things can go kind of together. Right? So she's a powerhouse. She travels all around the world. She gives speeches and lectures advocating for temperance reform. Like you said, the temperance movement is really, really powerful. Yeah. And the, you know, one thing that you could do, depending on what grade levels you teach, for younger students, if you're having trouble getting them to access the idea of temperance, there are really powerful political cartoon. 

Brooke Sullivan  19:00  
This is what I'm talking about, like the marketing. It was like the first marketing campaign that women were in charge of, you're like, yeah, that's impressive. Like, you're just like, come in for everyone. You're like, you, you and you, bad people. If you don't get on our train, you're bad. And it's like, you're right. We're on your train.

Kelsie Eckert  19:16  
My personal favorite cartoon is this one. It's called the alcohol toboggan slide. And it's this guy, my God, like goes in. It's like, it says something like one drink. And he just starts going down the slide. And the whole idea is like a slippery slope. By the time this guy gets to the end of the toboggan slide, like he's gone down into deprivation and now he's in like, the devil's lair, you know of like it it all starts with one drink and there's no pain. There's no like,

Brooke Sullivan  19:44  
This is what I feel about drinking wine later. It's a toboggan ride I'm out.

Kelsie Eckert  19:49  
Well, and so to that I do think it's worth talking about, you know, difference is differences in how people consumed alcohol then and how they consume alcohol. now. So what are the differences? So I have a timeline that goes all the way back to 1860. When it comes to wine, you're, you're fine Brooke. Okay, well, I pretty much stayed consistent. And wine is like, the moderate drinkers are the moderates. Right, who like don't consume that much.

Brooke Sullivan  20:17  
Finally I am not an extremist.

Kelsie Eckert  20:21  
Yes. And by the way, the scale on the timeline is in gallons of alcohol consumption. So, be here, interestingly, kind of like took off and consumption went up, went down with prohibition. And then it's kind of stayed in the middle. It's like a one gallon to a gallon and a half of alcohol consumed, per capita. So it's interesting, though, so that sort of like beer wine? I don't know. It's pretty steady as she goes, I would say, it's when you get into spirits where things get crazy. In 1860s, people were having two gallons of spirits.

Brooke Sullivan  21:05  
Two gallons of spirit, that's her capita,

Kelsie Eckert  21:08  
which is more than double what people were consuming in the early 2000s. When this data that when this ends, so. So if you can kind of picture that right spirits, we're talking like hard liquors, double what people are drinking today are hard liquors. And that's where we are in the 1860s. When this movement is like happening.

Brooke Sullivan  21:31  
There's also more people. Does that take that into account? Err? 

Kelsie Eckert  21:34  
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So it's per capita. So it's, it's, it's broken down per person. So yeah, so and I think that's just sort of important context to keep in mind that even though we're not living in an era of prohibition, people are still consuming significantly less liquor than the right then. And pro prohibition is like, definitely the turning point in that there was a small peak after Prohibition in the 60s and 70s. But it came back down again. 

Brooke Sullivan  22:04  
Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Do you think that's because other forms of drugs are on the rise? 

Kelsie Eckert  22:11  
It could be it could be become a number of drugs, maybe like legalization of marijuana in place, you know, just different stuff. That's, that's sort of impacting what people do. But I also think there's just much we have much more information out there. You know, like, I don't think most drinkers are like, this is good for me. You know, like, it is a poison that you're putting in your body. And it might be awesome. But like, there's no, there's no, like part of drinking alcohol, that's healthy. You know, like.

Brooke Sullivan  22:36  
Dosn't it lower blood pressure?

Kelsie Eckert  22:38  
Okay, like, but it's still 

Brooke Sullivan  22:41  
There are the lies, I tell myself.

Kelsie Eckert  22:46  
Sue. No, so. So you know, so I think I think people are just a little bit more maybe knowledgeable consumers, we also have better access to clean drinking water, we have other alternatives, right? Like there's Coca Cola, there's all sorts of stuff that people can consume. So bring us back to our women. The movement is really diverse. And there's people all over the country, some states are capable are. Some states are able to pass prohibition laws state to state right, similar to lots of issues that we've talked about where they're trying to make change on a national level, starts with state to state campaigns. And Kansas in particular, I think this is just such a hilarious one that you'd be remiss not to teach your students about. Oh, do tell. So in Kansas, they pass a prohibition law, it's illegal in Kansas to sell, produce and sell alcohol

Brooke Sullivan  23:42  
Deal.

Kelsie Eckert  23:45  
But there's no enforcement of this law going on. And so there are bars, like on the main drag in town that are operating and selling alcohol and the W CTU. And Kansas is losing their minds, right. I can see Yeah, it's like this is illegal. Do something about it. They're like, Echo. Yeah. So another woman that like everybody should know about is Terry Nation. Do you know about her? No. Okay,

Brooke Sullivan  24:16  
Great name, though.

Kelsie Eckert  24:18  
Oh! There are buttons. Carry Nation is a riot. So she so and and well, I should say I should back up and say that her life is really really tragic. She loses her husband to alcoholism. She's married a couple of the few times I can't remember exactly how many off the top of my head. Okay. But she, alcohol has has defined her life and it's not for the good. And she's um, she's a member of the WCTU. And she is devastated that these bars exist. She's also very, very religious. And so she wakes up with

Brooke Sullivan  24:58  
So suprising if she's been married so many times.

Kelsie Eckert  25:01  
Well they died. These are like. Although one of them's divorce, we'll talk about him in a second. So, so she wakes up one morning, and she is convinced that God wants her to read Kansas of this dreadful thing, liquor. And so she grabs a bunch of rocks. And she goes into a bar, and she just starts chucking them and shattering bottles of everywhere.

Rage. Oh, my God.

Like, this is like, deep Christian angry rage. Yeah. Like this is this is the real deal. 

Brooke Sullivan  25:39  
This is the thing. 

Kelsie Eckert  25:40  
This is the thing. That's for her. So he goes in.

Brooke Sullivan  25:44  
Does she hurt anyone.

Kelsie Eckert  25:46  
That I don't know, you know, it's not mentioned. I don't think her aim was to hurt people. Like she sees herself as going into save people, right? 

Brooke Sullivan  25:55  
Get out of here with my rocks.

Kelsie Eckert  25:55  
She says at one point that this crowd gathered outside and imagine this boy was in the crowd. And he was looking up at her. And she had this idea in her head that, like, if you destroy the bars, you save the boys. That's sort of like, and so that, like becomes very meaningful for her. 

Brooke Sullivan  26:14  
Yeah. 

Kelsie Eckert  26:15  
So anyway she's arrested, taken to jail and her and which is just just so funny, though, everything. Well, the irony, like these bars are illegal. And she's the one arrested. You know, like, that's kind of messed up.

Brooke Sullivan  26:27  
Didn't even think of that. 

Kelsie Eckert  26:28  
So she goes to jail. 

Brooke Sullivan  26:30  
You can't just come in throwing rocks and bars that are not supposed to be there. It's like, arresting for fake act.

Kelsie Eckert  26:36  
Yeah. So she goes to jail, she gets bailed out, she immediately grabs a bunch of rocks and goes into another bar, just does it over and over and over again. And her second husband comes in because he picks her up from jail one time and he's like, you know, he's not thrilled that she's doing this. But he goes, he goes in here, like, why are you using rocks? You might as well use that hatchet. And so she's like, that's the most sensible thing you've ever said. She gets a hatchet. And she goes into the next bar. And that sort of becomes the symbol of her things. And she called them Hatchetations. And she would just go and chop up bars in Kansas. She's arrested over and over and over again, the WCTU is like, we're not, like we agree. But also no

Brooke Sullivan  27:23  
Your Hatchetations are not on our agenda.

Kelsie Eckert  27:26  
But people like start joining her.

Brooke Sullivan  27:29  
There's a Hatchetation crowd.

Kelsie Eckert  27:30  
There's like a gay but like the agitation around Topeka, Kansas. And then they move on to like Wichetaw, and they're just like,

Brooke Sullivan  27:38  
I love women with axes going rogue.

Kelsie Eckert  27:40  
Oh, it's amazing. 

Brooke Sullivan  27:42  
This so maybe they don't like attack bars, but like I would really like to see a female gang.

Kelsie Eckert  27:46  
But like you have to have like, a noble mission. You know, there's something about the like, Christian like, I'm like dying for my cause sort of vibe that she brings, because you

Brooke Sullivan  27:56  
I feel like they're out there. We can definitely we got to find the cause. We got to find these hatchet women are around. Yeah.

Kelsie Eckert  28:02  
So Carrie Nation, she's a riot. And you know, and just such an interest, you know, and we do talk about like, you need to have these examples of like powerful women, your history class, and like, she's a badass who's like, not afraid of the law. She's like, bring it on.

Brooke Sullivan  28:19  
Obviously they just keep arresting her and she gets out. There's no repercussions. Probably this time period. No women are in jail.

Kelsie Eckert  28:25  
Yeah, well, there is. Yeah, I mean, women do go to prison for different things. But but there is definitely a tone of like, respectable women should not be sleeping in prison. So bail them out, you know, 

Brooke Sullivan  28:38  
Oh year like let's not let this happen for overnight. 

Kelsie Eckert  28:40  
Right. So um, so Carrie nation, sort of becomes this joke. There's plays made about her and stuff like that. My favorite way to call that? Well, I mean, in her time they made plays about her.

Brooke Sullivan  28:55  
Oh my God. I can only imagine I'm like writing the show. 10 In my mind, yeah.

Kelsie Eckert  28:59  
There's a sign that I love that said, you don't keep mine. There's tons of immigrants coming over to our, to our country during this period 28 million over the course of this time period. So there's a sign that I love that people started putting up in bars that said, All nations welcome except Carrie.

Brooke Sullivan  29:19  
I really want that T shirt. Yeah.

Kelsie Eckert  29:21  
So carry nations interesting. Definitely somebody to bring up when you're talking about Temperance.

Brooke Sullivan  29:26  
Where does she end. Like what's the end to her reign? 

Kelsie Eckert  29:29  
Like, I think eventually she's successful in getting people to like in to some degree in force. I

I mean, so the prohibition happens. 

So eventually, yeah, there's a nationwide. 

Brooke Sullivan  29:38  
I mean, she's probably ecstatic about that. I wonder if Kansas ever got on board.

Kelsie Eckert  29:45  
So bringing it back to Frances Willard, by the 1890s. Temperance is this massive, full blown movement and she you know, her passion? Her enthusiasm has really made this movement, a powerhouse movement. It's, I mean, it rants forms when she becomes president. Okay? And, but she becomes kind of controversial in the 1890s. And she dies in 1898. Really young, she's 58. And that time period in her the last years of her life, unfortunately, it kind of puts a black mark on her, like what I would argue is otherwise a pretty powerhouse legacy. Okay. And, you know, like a lot of figures in history. She's one of those people that, you know, you have to look at all of it. And you have to look at the wonderful things that she did for this movement, the wonderful things that she did for women for suffrage. And you also need to call her out on her racism and her failure to step up on different issues. And so another woman that everybody should know is Ida B. Wells, Barnett, Ida Wells Barnett is involved in so many different things during this time period, including temperance, but she's a founder of the NAACP. She is a sufferer, just the people who, you know, might be familiar with her suffrage work, probably her most famous suffrage thing is in 1913, when Al's poem, Lucy burns and the National Women's party are organizing their march on Washington for President Wilson's inauguration. She gives a very passionate speech because they were going to segregate the different groups and right man, and she's like, No, like, we're either with you or we're wrong. Exactly. Yeah. Like what the hell? And you know, all that was done to appease the Southern women because they wanted the southern votes on the suffrage issue.

Brooke Sullivan  31:42  
My audience can see my my eyes are old. Yeah.

Kelsie Eckert  31:45  
So she, you know, she stands up and then and then she and many other women, including Mary Church, Terrell, right. Refuse to march in the back and they jump in where with where they should be. Yeah, we're right in the mix. Yeah, exactly. She's involved in suffrage. She has involved in black rights. And in particular, her passion for African American rights is about anti lynching. So she lives in, lived in Memphis, Tennessee, and three of her male friends were lynched by a by the KKK in Memphis, Tennessee, because basically, there was this black grocer, who was doing very, very well, right, he was competing with the white grocer across town and winning, and so they lynched him. And she knew these people was devastated as anybody should have been very traumatic. And so she, like her personal crusade is in anti lynching. Okay? So eventually, she ends up in Chicago, and she is a writer, she writes, she has a whole, you know, she writes about anti lynching, she publishes a pamphlet, just with all her research and data and statistics about what's going on in these, you know, she's She speaks truth to power. I mean, she's such an incredible figure in American history. And so under discussed in school, everyone should know her name. And so she goes head to head with Francis Willard, because she wants the WCTU. To put anti lynching as something part of their heart of their cause. That if you are going to stand up against domestic abuse and violence stand up against violence. If you're gonna stand for the family.

Brooke Sullivan  33:44  
Yeah, this is all part of it. 

Kelsie Eckert  33:46  
That's all part of it. And you need to do that. There's a very public exchange between her and Frances Willard in the newspapers. Oh, and so we we have a lesson plan with this exchange, on our website. And the question is the same question we should be asking for every social reform movement, which is, should temperance be intersectional. And right, you know, was was Willard wrong for resisting, basically bringing this on? Eventually they do. You know, the wells is able to put enough wells Barnett is able to put enough pressure on the Lord, that they do make some sort of like weak statement, but it just sort of highlights the ways in which temperance was a white women's movement,

Brooke Sullivan  34:35  
Well and it's powerful, and what it was doing, but it didn't lean in on its power in the way that it could have and utilize it for more. It's like you already have this powerhouse of an organization.

Kelsie Eckert  34:47  
It's the most powerful women's political organization, and they wouldn't stand for lynching.

Brooke Sullivan  34:51  
Yeah, it's like you have an opportunity here you have a platform to Yeah, yeah, like it's just the utilize your platform. I think that's what we ask of any anyone who's in social justice, it's like, you're on a platform. And yes, the cause that you started with is wonderful. But utilize that platform to lean in on others and make sure their voices are heard.

Kelsie Eckert  35:09  
And not just people that are in social justice. Anybody who has a platform, right that has an audience. Remember, you have a freakin audience. Yeah. And remember that that audience is, you know, looking at you as a role model. And even if you don't see yourself as that, like, maybe that's not how you got your audience, you still are

Brooke Sullivan  35:26  
You have a responsibility to utilize the platform. I know. We talk a lot about that with athletes today. Yeah. And you know, everybody, celebrities, social media influencers, although you're you didn't get there for a social cause you have one. And you should utilize it. Yeah, for good.

Kelsie Eckert  35:44  
So I want to end there 1890, it's about 20 years before Prohibition passes. And there's so much to look into about that final push to get prohibition and you could totally go there with your students. I will just say, I do think that it's really ironic that the first real women's Amendment to pass is the Prohibition Amendment. 18 is Prohibition 19 is Suffrage. And in a lot of ways, they thought that if they would give women prohibition, they would let go on the suffrage issue. 

Brooke Sullivan  36:20  
Oh it's so cute. 

Kelsie Eckert  36:21  
That's really cute.

Brooke Sullivan  36:22  
So can this just keep them quiet? Keep them over there. 

Kelsie Eckert  36:27  
But I think it shows how, under Frances Willard's leadership the to sort of become synonymous like, right, you know, and, and honestly, it's sort of is, in some ways, a downside for suffrage. Like, what if we give you the vote? You're What are you going to do? Like ban alcohol or something? And like, yeah, they were going to do that.

Brooke Sullivan  36:46  
And the dead and you helped them and then they got the vote. Yeah.

Kelsie Eckert  36:50  
Yeah. So. So anyway, and but it came in the other order, which I think is funny. I think it's funny that that was more popular in the like banning the sale and consumption

Brooke Sullivan  37:00  
Hey it's all and the you know, part of it. There was a lot more to do with the vote. That was a challenge, uphill battle. But, I do think there's it's so interesting. Do you bring in the imagery from that time period? Yeah. Of it's just fascinating what, what people produced and what impacted people's opinions publicly?

Kelsie Eckert  37:19  
Yeah, absolutely.

Brooke Sullivan  37:20  
Very cool. Well, what a great topic. So there is lesson plans on the website on this one. 

Kelsie Eckert  37:24  
Absolutely. 

Brooke Sullivan  37:25  
Great. Wonderful. Well, I'm Brooke Sullivan.

Kelsie Eckert  37:28  
I'm Kelsie Eckert.

Brooke Sullivan  37:29  
Thanks Kels, bye!

Announcer  37:31  
Thanks so much for listening to Remedial Herstory: the other 50% please subscribe, rate and review wherever you listen to your podcasts to bring more voices to the conversation. We'd really appreciate that effort. Until next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Kelsie and Brooke.